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On this episode of This vs. That, we chat with Ronnie Martin, about the difference between self-awareness and navel gazing. Ronnie shares his personal experience with introspection and how he combats its tendency to become all-consuming. From intentional curiosity in other people's lives to prayer and discernment, we discuss practical tips for cultivating godly self-awareness. We also discuss the importance of humility, the role of spiritual disciplines, and taking the first step towards self-awareness. Join us for a thoughtful conversation on this important topic.

Ronnie Martin is the lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. He is also the author of the Advent Devotional the The God Who Is with Us: 25-Day Devotional for Advent and a co-host of The Happy Rant podcast.


This episode of This vs. That is sponsored by:

⁠⁠Evangelical Council for Abuse Prevention⁠⁠ – “Psalm 127:3 says, “Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord…” Yet, today one in every three girls and one in every seven boys are sexually abused before they’re 18. That’s why Evangelical Council for Abuse Prevention was formed.

By implementing ECAP’s child safety standards, Christian ministries create safe places for children and youth to hear the gospel and grow in discipleship, unhindered by abuse.

Ministry leaders! Check out ECAP’s free child protection assessments at ⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Parents! Contact ECAP through their website at ⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get a free video resource by Julie Lowe, author of Safeguards.”

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This vs. That is a podcast of Anchored Hope. Anchored Hope provides practical help to those hurting by anchoring their hope in Jesus and helping others gain a better understanding of his promises. We offer reputable, biblical counsel to those suffering or experiencing difficult seasons. Our counselors are highly trained and bring a vast experience in addressing the various issues of life.

To meet with a counselor, visit and schedule an appointment today.

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